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A Cold War Ace Combat, new game idea

Vietnam Korea Cold War Discussion Ace Combat

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#1
Ghostsniper1701

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As far as I know nobody has mentioned the scenario I've come up with, however the idea itself is not my won original idea. This is also my first post on this site so hello everyone.

I would like to see an Ace Combat game taking place earlier in the 20th century, around the time you would see F-100 Super Sabers, F-104 Starfighters, F-8 Crusaders, A-3 Skywarriors, basically a Vietnam era Ace Combat or heck let's take this further and go as far back as Korea with F-86 Sabers and MIG-15's.

Now where would a game of this nature take place? From what we know about Strangereal we have little information about the Verusan continent compared to the rest, just Yuktobania, Sotoa, and the nation of Verusa itself. We could use this game to explore that continent, as we don't have any games that really dive into detail about it except AC5 and that game only mentions the three I've already listed. Also there is a fan made map of Strangereal that's heavily detailed but not cannon, however I am using it as a basis.

So, a Cold War era AC game taking place on an almost blank continent. What war is happening? There got to be some kind of war or wars going on in an AC game. Basically Korea, Vietnam, and the Soviet-Afghan War. So here's the idea I've got.

 

Osea and Yuktobania are superpowers emerging from a Strangereal Great Depression, caused by the two Osean Wars fought by Belka and Osea. Initially only limited to the Osean continent it traveled to Verusa where Yuktobania was the hardest one hit by this crisis. While Osea got out similar to FDR's "New Deal," Yuktobania went through basically the Russian Revolution creating the Union of Yuktobania Republics. The two are at odds due to there ideological differences and so basically the Cold War as we knew it is happening. To counter the influence Osea has on its namesake continent Yuktobania attempts to assert themselves on Verusa. Unfortunately this doesn't go entirely to plan and this is where the game (possibly games) beings. Also if you know about the map I'm talking about that will really help. I believe this is the correct link. http://i.imgur.com/frNyH.jpg

 

You are a pilot of the Islamic European Union. You have just helped fight off the Yuk invasion of your neighbor the Islamic Emirate of Karabastan (This could be another game in and of itself). Your ally the Islamic Republic of Sotoa is going through a Civil War, caused by the attempted takeover of the communists supported by Yuktobania. Although the communists failed in the Coup they have gathered enough forces for all out war, and so have launched an offensive to take over the country. Sotoa has lost almost all of its territory to the rebels and now your country the IEU has decided to intervene along with direct support from the Osean Federation. After months of fighting the IEU, Osea, and Sotoa have pushed back the communists only to have Yuktobania itself intervene in the war. This move forces the allied nations to call for a peace conference before the entire country falls to Yuktobania. Much of Sotoa is lost and divided into 3 (now 5) countries. Sotoa, the Central Sotoan Republic (Originally the People's Republic of Sotoa before its own Civil War in 1991. Which created the nations of Central Sotoa, the Republic of the Levant, and the Kingdom of Rasheedi Tamudia), and the Federation of South Sotoa (the occupied land Osea tired to give back to Sotoa but Yuktobania refused to let it happen, the Yuks had a lot of sway in this peace conference so they made Osea create another country). 

 

After the debacle that was the Sotoan Civil War many in the IEU believed intervention is no longer an option. However, this changed when War breaks out in Verusa, another ally of the Islamic European Union. Initially a kingdom that ruled everything to the South of Yuktobania, it's power rivaled that of its Northern neighbor. While the Communist uprising was successful in creating the People's Republic of Verusa many nation states broke away in the process. As a reward and in advanced payment for helping out the Yuks annexed some of Versua's Northern territory. 4 nations had broken away from Verusa, the Republics of Romney and Kaluga, the Democratic Republic of Clavis, and the Khanate of Valga. Osea and the European Union finally intervened when the situation seemed all but lost to the rebels and when reports started coming in about how Verusa went full Vietnam when it came to treatment of POWs. After a year has passed the Yuks have been pushed back and in the peace conference they are forced to recognize Romney, Kaluga, Clavis, and Valga as independent from the People's Republic of Verusa (Sadly Clavis won't remain democratic for long because the communists win in the election and create the Socialist Republic of Clavis while the democrats flee to the western Island reinstating the Democratic Republic of Clavis. However the two Clavis are known to the world simply as East and West Clavis). 

 

Wow that was a lot to write about. I think I decided to outline the plot for an entire trilogy of games instead of just one there. Now, of coarse like I said earlier you will have access to Vietnam era aircraft leading up to the 4th gens like the F-15, F-16. SU-27, MIG-29 and so on. There won't be any 5th gens so don't expect an F-22 or T-50 to appear. Before these wars started the IEU was receiving support from Osea to build up its military and stole designs from Yuktobania. That's why you will have access to both sides aircraft. The role the player will play will be just like any other game, however it will have a mix of wing-man and solo missions. Initially beginning with a full squadron then ending with the playing being the only survivor. As you are a formal soldier in a country's military the Ace Gauge won't be returning, however I am thinking about more of a "Support Gauge" if you will. Depending on your actions in battle you will have different interactions and support from your allies. To change this Gauge there will be certain events during a battle that will influence how the rest of that battle and subsequent battles turn out. Something like how ACX did the missions, where if you destroy something here this battle is easier but you let something escape to a different area of the map in the process and must deal with it in a different fashion than normal. I loved that feature and would like to see it return to the franchise again.

 

So what kind of lineup would we expect from each of these games. The first one, the Yuk Invasion of Karabastan, will be gunfights with Post-WWII jets and Korean War aircraft. The only real AtG capable aircraft here will be the bombers so fighters wont play multi-roles again. This game will have missions that are either just dog-fighting or bombing, and the multi-role missions wont come until the second game. The second game, The Sotoan Civil War, will have the interwar aircraft between Korea and Vietnam and possibly early Vietnam. The third game, the Verusan War of Subjugation, will have Vietnam aircraft and 4th gens. In all these games you could play as bombers because some missions are bomber only, this goes for all three games not just the first game.

 

What do you guys think of this? Let me know!


Edited by Ghostsniper1701, 18 August 2016 - 09:44 AM.

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#2
Hue

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I would like to see some crazy designs such as the XF-108 and such without people thinking that I'm that guy who keeps whining about the days where planes were pointy, cars were made of steel with round retractable headlights and men drank rusty nails for breakfast without milk. The problem is that with the simplified mechanics of the Ace Combat series, there wouldn't be anything that different from the standard Ace Combats, thus meaning that the reasons to pick this era is just lost for most. Not to mention that the plane's introduction dates do not matter for the context of the actual war, with Ace Combat Zero drawing a parallel to WWII and Ace Combat 5 drawing a parallel to pretty much the Cold War going hot in a nutshell. Perhaps it would be cool to introduce a WWI theme to these sorts of aircraft should this idea be unique in mechanics. However, expecting Project Aces to be remotely innovative in a good way nowadays is like expecting the ashes of what was once a dolphin to jump through hoops on its own.

 

Also, hi.


Edited by Hue, 17 August 2016 - 06:06 PM.

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#3
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Hey, welcome to ACS! I've moved your thread to the right folder, but I left a link in the original folder so you know where it went.

 

Yeah, the idea of an AC with a 60s and 70s plane roster is something that a lot of people have tossed around for many, many years. I don't have much to add to what Hue says: the reason AC is in Strangereal is so that it isn't beholden to real world politics and geography, so the idea of a straight-up mirror of the Cold War is perhaps aiming a bit low. The politics you're describing aren't necessarily bad, and I like the idea of exploring Strangereal nations that aren't patterned after irl Western powers, but I don't think there's much to be gained by re-fighting the Cold War with different names.

 

I dunno how you'd flavor Cold War jets, but maybe you could do something with all-aspect vs rear aspect missiles. Have standard missiles be more accurate than traditional AC missiles, but only work from a rear-shot, meaning you can't use tactics like stiff-arming…

 

…actually on second thought, that's a terrible idea because it'd reduce tactical complexity. Maybe that could be offset by something else. But honestly, you could probably get away with not bothering to differentiate 70s!AC from modern AC at all.

 

Why is the IEU "European?" There's no Europe in Strangereal. Is that a placeholder name?


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#4
Ghostsniper1701

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The Islamic European Union was a place holder name. Considering the area of the world the IEU is positioned it looks like a disfigured Europe so the name would kinda make sense. The Verusan continent itself looks like a disfigured Afro-Eurasia in the first place.

 

Yeah I kind of just noticed how low I shot after rereading the Cold War part. So what if we scrap the bit about the Cold War and instead make it an era of Yuktobanian expansion, with a twist? Now the wars will still happen but under different pretenses. Instead of Superpowers trying to compete with each other's ideology, one Superpower is using its own as a means of expansion. What I mean is Yuktobania is starting Communist Revolutions in its neighbors not to spread communism, but to annex them instead and create an empire. Maybe using a justification akin to Hitler's "Unification of Germans" thing before WWII, but instead its "Unification of Communists" or something and the goal the Yuks have set is to rule all of Verusa. 

Now instead of direct military intervention like previously, Osea will offer indirect support through a Lend-Lease system of sorts along with Belka and Eursea. Justifying why you fight with (for a lack of better words) Eastern and Western aircraft. Now of coarse they will fail in this endeavor, instead of creating an empire they will get practicably no where. However you won't completely succeed either as Verusa and Sotoa remain broken up, but at least they don't fall under Yuk control. I honestly wanted an Ace Combat game where for once you don't completely succeed in your goals.

 

Or does that still fall too close to the Cold War? 


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#5
Hue

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The Islamic European Union was a place holder name. Considering the area of the world the IEU is positioned it looks like a disfigured Europe so the name would kinda make sense. The Verusan continent itself looks like a disfigured Afro-Eurasia in the first place.

 

Yeah I kind of just noticed how low I shot after rereading the Cold War part. So what if we scrap the bit about the Cold War and instead make it an era of Yuktobanian expansion, with a twist? Now the wars will still happen but under different pretenses. Instead of Superpowers trying to compete with each other's ideology, one Superpower is using its own as a means of expansion. What I mean is Yuktobania is starting Communist Revolutions in its neighbors not to spread communism, but to annex them instead and create an empire. Maybe using a justification akin to Hitler's "Unification of Germans" thing before WWII, but instead its "Unification of Communists" or something and the goal the Yuks have set is to rule all of Verusa. 

Now instead of direct military intervention like previously, Osea will offer indirect support through a Lend-Lease system of sorts along with Belka and Eursea. Justifying why you fight with (for a lack of better words) Eastern and Western aircraft. Now of coarse they will fail in this endeavor, instead of creating an empire they will get practicably no where. However you won't completely succeed either as Verusa and Sotoa remain broken up, but at least they don't fall under Yuk control. I honestly wanted an Ace Combat game where for once you don't completely succeed in your goals.

 

Or does that still fall too close to the Cold War? 

 

I don't see the Yuktobanians as commies, but just a hint at the role the commies had during the Cold War. I haven't found evidence that the government itself is communist, and Nikanor being kidnapped was already proven to be the work of a shady group that worked behind the scenes in order to slowly conquer the world by weakening two enormous superpowers. This idea just doesn't seem to work out. If you really want a tragic approach to Ace Combat, then WWI is still a decent idea. Make it so that the player is fighting in what is basically Verdun in the skies, as in mindless butchery for the purpose of diversion. But then there's this issue of making sense with the rest of the Ace Combat games that are not set in the real world.


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#6
FoxHoundElite

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Well about the weapon and system that we'll use in a Cold War-esque Ace Combat game, here's some of my suggestions:

 

1.Make the normal missile become a mid or late game SP Weapon, problem solved right? ;).

 

2. Turn some familiar starter plane in AC into a late unlockable. I cant imagine how a brick like F-4 will become a top tier plane :D

 

3.the usual multi purpose radar should become an end game customization too 

 

4. Add variety of gun type like Sky Crawler game: low to high caliber, even a...... shotgun type?

 

BTW, HAWX 2 nailed the Cold War jets pretty good, doing survival mode with the Sabre or Mig-15 is fun but hard af :)


Edited by FoxHoundElite, 19 August 2016 - 04:40 AM.

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#7
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I've never played HAWX survival mode, so I'll have to check that out.

 

I'm wary of the idea of making normal missiles a midgame thing because Ace Combat is already a mechanically simple game. Having to fly around with no missiles or terrible 1st generation missiles is an interesting challenge when the flight model allows for intricate BFM tactics, but AC doesn't have that leg to stand on. Getting rid of the radar is similar: AC is about flying around the map engaging targets, and removing the radar would just mean you spend more time flying around not fighting. At the very least, there'd have to be some kind of new detection (or even ground or AWACS controlled intercept) mechanic.

 

More gun types would be fun though, and so would aerial rockets. Give them a gun-like lead-computing reticle, make them a bit more accurate than normal rockets (but less against ground targets), and they can be an early tier anti-bomber SP weapon.


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#8
Scherzo

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Hey, welcome to ACS! I've moved your thread to the right folder, but I left a link in the original folder so you know where it went.

 

Yeah, the idea of an AC with a 60s and 70s plane roster is something that a lot of people have tossed around for many, many years. I don't have much to add to what Hue says: the reason AC is in Strangereal is so that it isn't beholden to real world politics and geography, so the idea of a straight-up mirror of the Cold War is perhaps aiming a bit low. The politics you're describing aren't necessarily bad, and I like the idea of exploring Strangereal nations that aren't patterned after irl Western powers, but I don't think there's much to be gained by re-fighting the Cold War with different names.

 

I dunno how you'd flavor Cold War jets, but maybe you could do something with all-aspect vs rear aspect missiles. Have standard missiles be more accurate than traditional AC missiles, but only work from a rear-shot, meaning you can't use tactics like stiff-arming…

 

…actually on second thought, that's a terrible idea because it'd reduce tactical complexity. Maybe that could be offset by something else. But honestly, you could probably get away with not bothering to differentiate 70s!AC from modern AC at all.

 

Why is the IEU "European?" There's no Europe in Strangereal. Is that a placeholder name?

 

 

The Cold War canonically occurred between Osea and Yuktobania; The SDI initiatives various powers undertook are the basis for many of the Superweapons of the universe (Stonehenge, Arkbird, SOLG, Scinfaxi/Hrimfaxi).

 

Also IEU is taken from me and Mike's SoU Fanon; it's what we called the European-looking region of the Verusean continent. 


Edited by Scherzo, 19 August 2016 - 01:54 PM.

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#9
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Lol right, I'd forgotten that part of SoU. The name just sounds like some kind of /pol/ joke.

 

I know the Cold War canonically occurred. Just because it's in canon doesn't mean it's interesting.


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#10
Scherzo

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Lol right, I'd forgotten that part of SoU. The name just sounds like some kind of /pol/ joke.

 

I know the Cold War canonically occurred. Just because it's in canon doesn't mean it's interesting.

 

 

Well Cold War Proxy Wars allow for a good mixture of kit. You can have clunkers that date back to the 50s that are part of the indigenous arsenals, all the way up to (then) state of the art 4th Gen airframes.

 

I think some parallelism in politics is going to be inevitable; Strangereal is about creating about sort of verisimilitude with the real world, and so I think marrying something resembling Cold War geopolitics to Cold War aesthetics makes the most sense.

 

I mean you know that a Cold War proxy backdrop can be an interesting setting; that's a big aspect of Royal Space Force, for example.


Edited by Scherzo, 19 August 2016 - 07:51 PM.

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#11
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Yeah, that's true. After all, any standoff between large powers with that level of technology would necessarily have some similarities to the Cold War. Proxy wars and wars caused by the fallout of proxy wars could be interesting.

 

Proxy wars open up some interesting thematic avenues too. "Whose sake is this war really being fought for?" sounds like a pretty Ace Combat thing to base a story around. Kinda like a non-dumb version of AC5.


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#12
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Yeah, that's true. After all, any standoff between large powers with that level of technology would necessarily have some similarities to the Cold War. Proxy wars and wars caused by the fallout of proxy wars could be interesting.

 

Proxy wars open up some interesting thematic avenues too. "Whose sake is this war really being fought for?" sounds like a pretty Ace Combat thing to base a story around. Kinda like a non-dumb version of AC5.

 

I think that's the theme of the last 2/3rds of ACZ more than AC5. AC5 is "War is dumb why does anyone like it"... in a game that glorifies righteous armed conflict.


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#13
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If we have a Cold War-theme  Ace Combat game. which timeline do you guys think PA will choose?

 

For me it would be 1945 to 1960, a mix of WW2-era with Cold War-era tech would be nice. I choose that timeline because of one problem: The technology in Strangereal world is far too advance by 90s onward, can you imagine if we already have PAK FA and giant flying fortress  in 1992 in our world?


Edited by FoxHoundElite, 19 August 2016 - 09:56 PM.

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#14
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I quite like the idea, probably because I have a soft spot for Cold War kit.

 

On the off chance it happens at all, the 60s/70s in one of the smaller countries would be a good setting. That way they can have props as starters, progressing to the Sabre/MiG-15 and other early jets, then to the F-4/MiG-21, finishing up with the F-14/F-15. The proxy war idea floated earlier would fit this perfectly.

 

Sadly it probably won't be as marketable as the gorillionth Raptor/Flanker coverart, but a man can dream!


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#15
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ISadly it probably won't be as marketable as the gorillionth Raptor/Flanker coverart

 

Ahem

 

North_American_XF-108-Rapier.jpg


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Ahem

 

North_American_XF-108-Rapier.jpg

Shame it never got off the ground, but I suppose that's how military procurement works.

 

RIP in peace ;_;7


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#17
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oh please just give me the AH-1 Skyraider and i will buy the game's collector edition in a heartbeat :D


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#18
Ghostsniper1701

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I quite like the idea, probably because I have a soft spot for Cold War kit.

On the off chance it happens at all, the 60s/70s in one of the smaller countries would be a good setting. That way they can have props as starters, progressing to the Sabre/MiG-15 and other early jets, then to the F-4/MiG-21, finishing up with the F-14/F-15. The proxy war idea floated earlier would fit this perfectly.

Sadly it probably won't be as marketable as the gorillionth Raptor/Flanker coverart, but a man can dream!


That's exactly what I originally had in mind. However, I don't think the marketability of the game would be affected by there not being Raptors. I mean just look at all the prototypes developed during that period. It would be awesome to intercept super sonic bombers like the XB-70 with the XF-108 or escort them to the target area. That's also a nice addition to the series. A mission where your flying high altitude and need high speeds to prevent stalling and those missions require super sonic aircraft.
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#19
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A mission where your flying high altitude and need high speeds to prevent stalling and those missions require super sonic aircraft.

 

what is rising high for $20


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