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Kono Talks About ACAH on Twitter


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#21
cegc135

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Yes, it might have that "Russia is evil, US is supreme' cliche but its already common in many other games other than COD, so doesn't it make those games like World In Conflict bad as well?

Coming from a game series that KIND OF avoided that cliche through a parallel universe with made-up countries, made-up cultures, both inspired by real-life nations (from the PS2 titles onwards, the allies were some sort of love child of the USA and Japan plus another country, while the enemy was a ripoff of Russia + another country) and real-life historical conflicts combined with some famous tale or story, for example: ACZ (where your Cipher comes from) is a combination of World War II + Excalibur and the Round Table, Ustio is some sort of mix of US + Japan + Europe (not Spain since there's the country Sapin, very creative name by the way *sarcasm) while Belka was Russia + Germany, Osea was again the US + Japan, Yuktobania is Yugoslavia on steroids... You can see this in the name of the Aces you shot down in the Assault Records.

 

All these factors allowed the game to tell a magnificent story around the whole dogfighting theme of the game, allowed for actually non-repetitive missions (some of them quite iconic), and allowed us players to actually connect to the characters involved, to the story, the music, the sounds, the visuals, the universe in which it happens (lovingly known as Strangereal), hence why we miss it so much.

 

This represents a stark contrast when compared with Assault Horizon's story which is bleak, hollow and completely devoid of that connection, and that is because it's not easy to connect to the same old story with a predictable plot twist and obvious glorification of one REAL country, thus alienating players from elsewhere who actually care about that or feel their country is misrepresented, for instance, French pilots are depicted as incompetent idiots who have to be saved by the almighty American ace in the only 2 missions where they appear, and Russians are represented as back-stabbing maniacs willing to convince a poor continent to test a new weapon that these Russians will use to blow an entire nation just for one casualty that mattered to a single Russian pilot... oh and there are SOME good Russian guys willing to shoot at their own comrades in the name of the US and all that's good according to them; the US are the cool, two-shoes, good guys.

 

Other games at least make an effort to fully represent every faction in an even manner, on the other hand, Assault Horizon does not.

 

As for graphics, music, aircraft models and aesthetics, THESE are the ONLY factors that do not fail (kinda) in Assault Horizon, but the important stuff like gameplay mechanics, plot, player connection, and other inner workings, they all are done terribly compared to previous titles. Assault Horizon even managed to mislabel some of the aircraft like the Su-24MP Fencer, an aircraft obviously designed for ground attack, yet Kono and company thought it wasn't and made it a fighter or multirole; this is not the first time it happens though, but that was a very ridiculous mistake which goes to show that this game was either rushed and/or not too well thought. Another thing, Positron hit the nail with previous games being also very detailed with the aircraft models, I can attest to that.

 

And another thing, it is never the same to watch a game through YouTube than to experience it first hand, I highly recommend you to get a PS2 or a free emulator and get the games or download the ISOs, then you'll see what we all mean with Assault Horizon vs the rest of the franchise.

 

Notice how I didn't even have to mention the problems with gameplay such as DFM overuse... that's how flawed Assault Horizon is.

 

And I think one single opinion from a critic who has not played previous titles and has played this game ONCE is not a very trustworthy source, I think you should lend your other ear to the people who have played this game series for far longer.


Edited by cegc135, 26 February 2015 - 06:10 PM.

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#22
The Protector

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future of ace combat tumblr_inline_ncrhsnpr1W1svbv0m.gif


Edited by The Protector, 26 February 2015 - 11:41 PM.

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#23
Nemo KB

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Dass a cool skellington.

 

So just how drunk are you?


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#24
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Yes its true I havent played the past games but I know how good they are and did endless research on them through Acepedia and Youtube walkthroughs by Tomcat171...

 

Watching the game(s) being played isn't the same as actually playing it/them; that's the unfortunate partiality that historic AC players encumber due to burden of knowledge. We know/feel how a 'good' AC should play etc., and AH just wasn't all that good. The first playthrough for most was the 'wow factor', but they quickly regained sense and saw that all the little niggles piled up into a junk yard with following campaign runs.

 

Multiplayer was fun for a while, such as with friends in rule-set lobbies, but eventually the process of DFM-Flare-Counter-Repeat just repeated itself no matter what.

 

Also >helicopters. That can die.

 

If AH was your first AC, then enjoying it is somewhat a given if flight combat games tickle you. But when compared to the old...there wasn't a candle that could be held to them. In fact the match was blown out before it even lit the wick.


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#25
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Hmm, interesting reas. I'll check out everyone's response tomorrow morning.

I had a chance to meet Kono-san last year at MCM and I came away feeling he was a very humble man who loved his work. I can understand his desires to use AH as a way of spreading out the brand to new potential fans though I also see it as a product of the modern game industry whereby big budget games are almost designed by committee and need to follow a set number of "requirements" based on what has sold well.

Ironically, only today I actually thought what it would be like if they had included the ability to choose between Classic Ace Combat gameply and DFM gameplay in the game (kinda like how maneouvres in AC 3D can be deactivated or, what originally made me consider it, that perma-death can be deactivated in Fire Emblem Awakening). Surprised to hear he actually considered it.
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#26
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I really had no idea why AH is getting this much hate.

Because it's a bad game. Bad performance disparity between aircraft, plus bad campaign, horrendous tacked-on non-fighter levels, and top it off with the worst game mechanic ever seen in an AC and you get a bad game.

Its aim was to appeal to a wider audience, not only the AC fanbase.

Which is funny when you say this.

Its not appealing to the COD enthusiast with it's linear shooting style but to plane enthusiasts and gamers alike.

Yes, it does.

Regenerating health.
Over usage of HDR.
Hilariously bad plot without any real respect toward world political ties.
AC-130 section

It literally was supposed to pander to the CoD audience. There's really no way to deny.

Also, you gotta admit the graphics have improved a lot from the previous games and the cinematic are great.


The only reason it looks presentable is because the game is bathed in post-processing and HDR effects. The textures are pretty bad and the polygon counts are really pretty abysmal.

6 looks objectively better.
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#27
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Yes, it does.

Regenerating health.
Over usage of HDR.
Hilariously bad plot without any real respect toward world political ties.
AC-130 section

It literally was supposed to pander to the CoD audience. There's really no way to deny.

Kono doesn't outright deny it, but he does say clearly that the purpose of ACAH was to broaden the appeal of the game beyond a niche audience. All those things you say are ways of making the game - mechanics and aesthetic - more intuitively understandable to someone who doesn't play a lot of flight games. The most you have to believe for it to make sense is that PA staff thought CoD did something right mechanically and represents what a broader audience expects from a game about military things. Both of which I think are true, for better or worse.

Now, it'd be stupid to think that someone somewhere along the line didn't want to win some CoD players over. That's almost a given: if you're making a game more accessible in this way, who do you suppose is going to access it if not CoD people? I'd say that the thing most likely a result of wanting the CoD audience is the aesthetic. But it presumes too much to say that it was made to pander to that specific group from the ground up.

As for the AC-130 mission, I'm not sure how they possibly could have thought that a CoD player would buy the game because he heard somewhere (from whom?) that there was an AC-130 segment. This is of course no proof that they didn't think this - because lol Japanese marketing - but it does make me inclined to believe they were simply fans of Death From Above in CoD4 and thought "hey, we're already doing bomber and helo missions, an AC-130 mission would work really well here."

 

BlazerAaron99 is wrong about many things, but this is not one of them. Or if he is, he's certainly not stupid for thinking so.


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#28
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I hope you realise that the AC-130 has literally only appeared in ONE CoD campaign in its modern era history right? And it was in the best one, CoD4? And that it was a MP killstreak reward beyond that in MP and featured in a grand total of ONE mission in Spec Ops in MW2?
 
The CoD enthusiast doesn't give a shit about the campaign, they play it for the multiplayer, about being at the top of a leaderboard. So much of the pre-release focus leading up to a launch is MP focused. Hell take AW for example, the thing that killed the game on PC was the lack of dedicated servers for online multiplayer. Regen health is the ONLY thing you can put the blame solely on the CoD influence, and even then you can trace that feature back to Halo.
 

DFM is only half of it. It's the combination of that (the TGT Leads and bullshit like Markov in particular) and the extremely linear and scripted mission structure. If you're okay with a game where missions play almost exactly the same way every time you play them, when the campaign is only a few hours long to begin with, then that explains why you'd have no issue with AH. I for one expect such a game to have some replayability.

 
Horseshit. AC of old had replayability due to unlockable skins/aircraft through playing the campaign multiple times or getting a higher score by killing baddies quicker, absolutely nothing to do with mission structure. AC5 was one of the worst offenders in that regard, and AC4/6 only had a difference if you chose to attack the left group of targets instead of those on the right like in Operation Bunker Shot.
 

While I don't agree with some of what you said about AH, you definitely have good taste in CoD games.


You're an idiot.

Edited by ACAce23, 01 March 2015 - 08:03 AM.

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#29
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If you deny that AH wasn't completely trying to pander to the CoD, I'd like to know the color of the sky on whatever planet you're on, it clearly isn't blue.
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#30
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It's a very fine grey.

 

Look, PA is many things, but one thing they aren't is outright stupid. But they'd have to be in order to think that 1) the reason games like CoD are successful is because they have regenerating health and AC-130 missions and 2) CoD's core audience is reading reviews and watching videos of semi-obscure Japanese niche franchises and going "Wow, health regen? This game really speaks to me!"

 

Let's suppose you're right for a moment though - not that you ever doubted it. If they were really using those mechanics to appeal to a CoD audience, wouldn't you expect them to actually feature in their press releases? Their trailers? The back of the game? I can find five trailers for AH. There is about six seconds of AC-130 footage among them - none at all in three of them - and the trailer with the most of it was the one for Europe. None of them mention the health. Only the explicitly labeled cinematic trailer shows or says anything that could tie it to the real world. Their press releases? Hell, nowhere in the "game" section of the official site will you even find any mention of either the door gunner, the bomber, or the AC-130, nor any mention of the regenerating health. And as for the back of the box? Absolutely nothing about any of it.

 

In order to believe that they were going directly for CoD's core audience, you'd have to believe that overuse of HDR and bad politics was conclusive evidence. It might be, but that takes some proving. It's not self-evident.

 

If anything, they were aiming for the fringes of CoD's audience: the sort who plays CoD, but also other mainstream action games, and occasionally will buy a game just because they stumbled across a cool looking trailer. When all those CoD-like mechanics become at all relevant is in retaining a player who already has the game and increasing the likelihood he'll go on to buy the sequel.


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#31
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If you deny that AH wasn't completely trying to pander to the CoD, I'd like to know the color of the sky on whatever planet you're on, it clearly isn't blue.


I won't deny AH tried to pander to a more casual audience in some respects but to say they were looking at CoD's primary purchasers as their target audience is utterly asinine.


Edited by ACAce23, 01 March 2015 - 05:34 PM.

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#32
PositronCannon

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Horseshit. AC of old had replayability due to unlockable skins/aircraft through playing the campaign multiple times or getting a higher score by killing baddies quicker, absolutely nothing to do with mission structure. AC5 was one of the worst offenders in that regard, and AC4/6 only had a difference if you chose to attack the left group of targets instead of those on the right like in Operation Bunker Shot.

 

I still play AC04, ACZ, AC6 and ACX once in a while, long after unlocking everything and doing pretty much everything there is to do as far as most (sane) people are concerned, just playing free mission for the heck of it with different planes and weapons. For most people the replayability comes from unlocking shit (gee, look at how popular Titanfall is nowadays), but for me it comes from the games being fun to play. You're seriously saying the way the missions are designed has absolutely nothing to do with how replayable they are? I'd have to throw that "horseshit" back at you.

 

I'd say "going left instead of right" is overly simplifying it, but even that simple choice can make a huge difference already. Being able to do things even slightly differently is a big factor for replayability even if not all that much changes when you get down to it. As you say yourself, AC5 was terrible in that aspect, with its abuse of small wave-based spawns that often depend on radio chatter getting to certain points, but AH is an even worse offender, with some fully-on-rails missions (gunner, AC-130, or some of the jet missions with heavy emphasis on scripted DFM rides getting close to this) and even taking away the option to use any plane you want in every mission. I only consider 2 missions in AH to be kinda decent, and those are Pipeline and Siege, the only missions with no scripted DFM bullshit and that actually have both air and ground targets. These are the only missions that didn't feel like I was doing exactly the same thing as every other time that I played them, but they're still only at about the level of the average AC5 mission, with the additional annoyance of being forced to use DFM if you want your weapons to be worth a crap. Hell, it says something when I consider the Moscow chopper mission to be better than most of the jet missions, just because you're actually in control of things and have a decent choice of how to do things, it's just the mechanics aren't very fun (but then again that goes for the whole game).

 

As for the argument about pandering to the COD audience, I don't think it's as much COD as it was just the "average" gamer.


Edited by PositronCannon, 01 March 2015 - 05:55 PM.

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#33
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Ok, to settle the calamity amongst the mammaries "Crafted clearly to pander to those who love Faux-Ridley Scott military thriller settings such as CoD while featuring overly simplified and forgiving mechanics."

I don't see what's so upsetting about stating the blatantly obvious. It was crafted with that very market in mind, a market that happens to be extremely profitable.

Edited by Skope Hogan, 01 March 2015 - 07:22 PM.

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#34
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If AH was your first AC, then enjoying it is somewhat a given if flight combat games tickle you. But when compared to the old...there wasn't a candle that could be held to them. In fact the match was blown out before it even lit the wick.

AH wasnt my first. ACX was my first


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#35
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You're seriously saying the way the missions are designed has absolutely nothing to do with how replayable they are? I'd have to throw that "horseshit" back at you.

 

Yes. Because AH is no more linear than games before it. There are a whole heap of missions in AC04-6 that play out exactly the same no matter how many times you try it. Its a non-complaint.


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#36
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May as well throw myself into the firefight.

On thing I found is that the previous titles have you that sense of freedom in how to approach missions. Go after different targets, different directions and free to go in whatever aircraft you want. Try playing AC04's Shatter Skies Mission in an A-10. Not possible in ACAH as you were basically restricted. I wanted to use the Tornado or Su-34 in more missions though they can only be used once whilst the Su-24 was classed as a fighter (WTF?!) when I wanted to use it in battlefield interdiction missions.

As already said, I found ACAH like replaying a singular experience whilst each playthrough of the PS2, PSP, 360 & 3DS titles felt like its own playthrough, depending on how I decided to go about it (that's not to say they didn't have their very linear missions though those tended to be just the early ones).
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#37
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Just one word to Blazer:Do You want someone to hold your hand to fly an aircraft ?


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#38
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Just one word to Blazer:Do You want someone to hold your hand to fly an aircraft ?

No Idont . I
guess that no one here shares my views. Seems that AH will always be the dark horse until something else comes after and drives people nuts
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#39
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No Idont . I
guess that no one here shares my views. Seems that AH will always be the dark horse until something else comes after and drives people nuts


No, it'll still be shit.
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#40
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No, it'll still be shit.

I guess I lost this debate the minute I stepped into it.
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