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Why was it the developer's choice to have chopper die?

Chopper Ace Combat Ace Combat 5

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#21
T.Wo

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Lol! Well... Welcome to ACS, everyone here is a different universe to meet.

Thanks :P

 

And for the reason why Chopper died, here's my guess:

Maybe the death was just so that Snow can join in as the story eventually centers on the Kestrel and its fleet.


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#22
Yellow 13

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A likely scenario, Mr. Wo.

 

Of course, asking questions about character or plot development of anyone other than the writers is ridiculous.

 

And an ongoing discussion of same is just a circle jerk.


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#23
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OK. I must admit. I do have some theories that Chopper is not dead and that he is the player character in Ace Combat 6 but is silent. But the thing is. Why was it developer choice to have him die later in the game? Did they want to shock players? Or was he an unpopular character with the developers?(He certainly was with us!!!).

 

And people call MY theories stupid.


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#24
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And people call MY theories stupid.

 

Because they usually are. :3


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#25
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rekt


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#26
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Because they usually are. :3

<_<


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#27
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And people call MY theories stupid.

 

Well... it's because your theories have been disscused over and over again  :D


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#28
Shamrock

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No, you'd miss the tension and angst of the knowledge coming out that he's trapped and going to die, and the sheer cocky bravery of his final words, "Heh heh, I'm gonna miss that voice."

If you're overly emotional about this game, you might shed a few manly tears.

If you're overly emotional about this game, you're also gonna be really pissed off at the last wave that comes at you afterward (at least the first time) and you realize by your wingmen's grunts that they're pulling to get around and at the enemy as soon as they can. They're pissed, too.

I actually thought it was one of the finer visceral moments in the Ace Combat series.

 

 

I cried like a bitch. Chopper was not only the best and most interesting character I have seen in an Ace Combat game, his voice actor actually did a good job. His death although very sad made perfect sense. He's the most cocky and careless squadron member so it's not hard to imagine him getting carried away and catching a missile. You spent just enough time with him to become familiar and depending on your degree of involvement, it was a very sad death.

 

Edge couldn't die because she's the moral compass of the game and closely tied to the Razgriz story and the Arcbird.

Grimm couldn't die because he's new and basically the new Blaze.

 

Swordsman was a nice addition, but I never really cared for him.

 

 

Ace combat 5 is my favorite game to this day and it's simply because of the story and the squadron dynamic. You have a close knit group of Aces who go through a somewhat coherent story and it really feels like this is a real squadron. That was my problem with 6. AC6 was graphically good and pretty fun, but the story was downright bizarre and nonsensical. They used the in game engine for cut scenes which looked terrible and just the whole story didn't make any sense. Voice acting was bad as well. On top of that, you only have two squadron members, one of whom is mute. So that leaves just one and he didn't have much of a personality, I didn't even care when he died. There was no dynamic there, no relationship. At least in AC5, they used pre-rendered animated cut scenes which looked a lot better than 6 and the story actually made sense.


Edited by Shamrock, 28 February 2015 - 12:26 PM.

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#29
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#30
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#31
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Quinn please.

 

I actually agree. Whatever I might think of AC5's dumbass plot and characterization, it's definitely tight in a way that the writing in AC6 is not. Sunao Katabuchi is a bro who knows what he's doing when it comes to structuring. Killing Chopper was definitely an efficient way of getting across the idea that this is an unjust war that kills good people, if not the most subtle.

 

In hindsight, it's almost telegraphed: his only function in the game seems to be "character that the player is supposed to like." As Shamrock points out, this is in contrast to everyone else. Characters like Chopper are almost always marked for death.


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#32
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Yes. The only other good ending for AC5 that I can think of is that if Chopper doesn't die, the whole squadron dies in the end in the final battle effectively ending the legend of Razgriz.

 

Not saying the story of AC5 is perfect, but god damn in comparison to AC6 it's a masterpiece in almost every aspect. Same with AH. I don't even remember the story in AH, that's how insignificant it was. If you're going to make the player's character a faceless mute, that means the other characters have to have a personality.

 

Edit: and also, I'm not so crazy about Swordsman joining the squadron. Wardog essentially becomes Razgriz, but they do so through a shared connection to Sand Island both from Nagase and Chopper's stories of the demon. Swordsman joins in the third act and he doesn't have that strong of a connection except for being there in earlier battles. He's a good guy and all, I just think it deminishes the legend a bit. I also got annoyed at how many times the say Razgriz in the game, holy crap, it's almost as annoying as "dance with the angels" in AC6. If I hear that phrase one more time, I swear to god I will toss that game out of he god damn window.

 

Also, Sand Island should have been revisited at least in the end after you rescue Bartlett. And they should have included the reporter in at least some of the gameplay chatter, especially when you escape Sand Island. He's not a pilot, so how did he get out? Was he in the same cockpit as Blaze? I don't remember if those planes were dual crew, but Pops had his dog with him, so I'm guessing they are, unless he strapped that dog down to the floor somehow.


Edited by Shamrock, 28 February 2015 - 06:23 PM.

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#33
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Yes. The only other good ending for AC5 that I can think of is that if Chopper doesn't die, the whole squadron dies in the end in the final battle effectively ending the legend of Razgriz.

 

Not saying the story of AC5 is perfect, but god damn in comparison to AC6 it's a masterpiece in almost every aspect. Same with AH. I don't even remember the story in AH, that's how insignificant it was. If you're going to make the player's character a faceless mute, that means the other characters have to have a personality.

 

Edit: and also, I'm not so crazy about Swordsman joining the squadron. Wardog essentially becomes Razgriz, but they do so through a shared connection to Sand Island both from Nagase and Chopper's stories of the demon. Swordsman joins in the third act and he doesn't have that strong of a connection except for being there in earlier battles. He's a good guy and all, I just think it deminishes the legend a bit. I also got annoyed at how many times the say Razgriz in the game, holy crap, it's almost as annoying as "dance with the angels" in AC6. If I hear that phrase one more time, I swear to god I will toss that game out of he god damn window.

 

Also, Sand Island should have been revisited at least in the end after you rescue Bartlett. And they should have included the reporter in at least some of the gameplay chatter, especially when you escape Sand Island. He's not a pilot, so how did he get out? Was he in the same cockpit as Blaze? I don't remember if those planes were dual crew, but Pops had his dog with him, so I'm guessing they are, unless he strapped that dog down to the floor somehow.

 

A trainer aircraft that does not have two seats is just a newbie deathtrap. The Hawk obviously has two seats at this point, so I'd be surprised if there wasn't enough space. You basically have 8 seats available. Since Pops was able to comment on how Genette is doing, the latter was in the same plane as Pops. Literally impossible for him to tell otherwise. No proof of Kirk being in the same cockpit from what I could tell, at least in the appropriate mission.

 

Still, the reason why AC AH's plot is not easy to remember is because you heard that story already. Especially if you play too many modern military shooters or hear people talk about modern military shooters. I'm not really a fan of AC 5's mechanics nor its story nor even the wingmen, but I could at least follow the story somewhat clearly even though the characters are simply cliché. Nagase is basically there because she has two X chromosomes and therefore she's supposed to be the one with the idea of peace because reasons, Grimm's the mandatory wuss for the player to think he's actually good at something in order to stroke his ego, Chopper's there to make the player shed a tear (or at least try) by actually not having the characteristics of a wuss like the other characters. Snow, in my opinion, is there for two reasons. One, he's the only fighter pilot left on the Kestrel. If the story centers on the Kestrel, it centers on Snow. Second, ethnic diversity. This way Namco wouldn't run in with people saying "dude the Yukes are basically Russians why are you racist" because they have a black guy assisting the player. But Snow doesn't have as much an impact on the player because we don't give a crap about him for half the story. It's the situation in the story that was interesting to me, not the characters as much. AC 6 didn't convey it as well for some reason. Probably because my eyes twitch a bit when I hear the whole angels part.


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#34
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Yeah I just realized that training aircraft needs to have dual crew cockpits, I forgot whether they were stunt or training planes.

 

Of course Genette is with Pops as you've mentioned I just don't know who Kirk is with. I suppose it could be anyone, but it's strange he doesn't talk at least during that flight.

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by AC5 mechanics and what you didn't like about them. If you're talking about wingman commands, I didn't have an issue with them, although they seem to have little impact on the battle unlike AC6 with ESM. If you're taking about the optional choices where you asnwer YES or NO, I also had no issue with that. It at least places the player inside the game more than just being completely mute. If I recall correctly, some of those choices affect the missions you get to do, so there is a bit of replayability as well.

 

As for the story, it's not perfect, and there are a lot of cliché elements and odd choices, but overall it holds up, even though the premise of the whole both presidents get kidnapped and the villain is actually Belka, is kind of over the top, but well executed. Where as in 6, the story concept is not bad, but just so poorly executed that my head hurt.

 

The squadron is a bit cliché as you have "the girl" that is reserved and morally strong, but I don't think she's that one dimensional. For one, she's the pivot of the Razgriz story and she swings the pendulum of being emotional and disconnected. She's also not perfect and has been in danger of being shot down twice, with the second time being nearly fatal. She's also the second narrator and once again, shows the Razgriz part of the story.

 

You have Chopper, who is a typical show-off, loudmouth, annoying, funny, cocky, disorganized, wingman. Yet he also hates dog fighting, suggesting that he loves the sky, but hates war. He also cares about his country and is willing to give his life. He not only creates the atmosphere of the tight knit squadron, but introduces a bit of relief from the seriousness of the battle taking place. He makes the game feel more human.

 

Grimm is the newbie and sort of a rising star much like Blaze. He proved himself in the Sand Island raid and has been a good wingman. He's respectful, intelligent, but also shows fear and isn't afraid to admit when he's uncertain. Although a minor detail, but during one of the missions, he hears a transmission from his brother in one of the ground battalions and it makes the human element that much more real.

 

Snow, is familiar, but he always feels a bit removed from the squadron, I don't really have much to say about him other than being a more military version of Grimm. I don't know if the racial diversity hypothesis holds because I don't think people care that much. We have plenty of games with little to no black people and it's hasn't been an issue. More often than not, the issue of race becomes an "issue" when minorities are represented in a bad way. For example the Resident Evil 5 setting in Africa that people were outraged about and the recent Bioshock Infinite racism within the game dialogue referring to black people even though it's just historically correct. It's like saying that in a game about WW2, it would be racist to depict concentration camps.

 

The Kestrel part was nice, but I didn't feel anything when it sunk, which is unfortunate.


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#35
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I'm not sure what you mean by AC5 mechanics and what you didn't like about them. If you're talking about wingman commands, I didn't have an issue with them, although they seem to have little impact on the battle unlike AC6 with ESM. If you're taking about the optional choices where you asnwer YES or NO, I also had no issue with that. It at least places the player inside the game more than just being completely mute. If I recall correctly, some of those choices affect the missions you get to do, so there is a bit of replayability as well.

 

It's just things that concern me not feeling a difference between planes, missiles being quite sad, aces being reduced to just a bunch of apes fond of their chaff and flare buttons, etc. It's nothing more than not as good, but at least Katina's just hella fun when you can master the whole missile+gun combo and have a thirst for speedruns.

 

For the story, I never had issues with it for the most part. I just distance myself from storylines in general for the gameplay unless the story is just very well-structured, but I don't like the idea of the whole story in AC AH as I heard it enough and AC 6 doesn't stick as much with the story but has somewhat better gameplay even though the crowd on mission 12 loses its fun when you get allied support.


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#36
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#37
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It's just things that concern me not feeling a difference between planes, missiles being quite sad, aces being reduced to just a bunch of apes fond of their chaff and flare buttons, etc. It's nothing more than not as good, but at least Katina's just hella fun when you can master the whole missile+gun combo and have a thirst for speedruns.

 

For the story, I never had issues with it for the most part. I just distance myself from storylines in general for the gameplay unless the story is just very well-structured, but I don't like the idea of the whole story in AC AH as I heard it enough and AC 6 doesn't stick as much with the story but has somewhat better gameplay even though the crowd on mission 12 loses its fun when you get allied support.

 

I see. Well I don't know about the plane thing. It's hard to make them feel different, they fly, they shoot, they take off and land. I don't know how much different you can make them. They do hadle differently for example the F22 and the A-10 feel very different. Weapon wise, I'm sure what you mean by missles being sad and I don't recall much flare action in 5. I do, however, recall a lot of bullshit flares in AH. A lot of close battles in AH were actually rediculous and scripted where they made it more tense than it needed to be.

 

That also reminds me of a big issue I had with 6 when it came to drones. Drones flew in impossible patterns. They would slow down and speed up so quickly that there is no way you could keep up and made turns that were impossible to pull off even for an unmanned arial vehicle.

 

The allied support in A6 is also OP at times so I refrain from using it, but if you want S ranks, you have to use that shit every second or else you won't be able to keep up. I actually really liked the operation selection mechanic and landing to re-stock missiles was a nice thing to bring back since 5 didn't have it. Although 5 taught you to not be careless with missiles.


doesn't the dog bark?

Yes. And you get to respond with either Yes or No. rotfl.gif


Edited by Shamrock, 28 February 2015 - 09:07 PM.

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#38
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I see. Well I don't know about the plane thing. It's hard to make them feel different, they fly, they shoot, they take off and land. I don't know how much different you can make them. They do hadle differently for example the F22 and the A-10 feel very different. Weapon wise, I'm sure what you mean by missles being sad and I don't recall much flare action in 5. I do, however, recall a lot of bullshit flares in AH. A lot of close battles in AH were actually rediculous and scripted where they made it more tense than it needed to be.

 

That also reminds me of a big issue I had with 6 when it came to drones. Drones flew in impossible patterns. They would slow down and speed up so quickly that there is no way you could keep up and made turns that were impossible to pull off even for an unmanned arial vehicle.

 

The allied support in A6 is also OP at times so I refrain from using it, but if you want S ranks, you have to use that shit every second or else you won't be able to keep up. I actually really liked the operation selection mechanic and landing to re-stock missiles was a nice thing to bring back since 5 didn't have it. Although 5 taught you to not be careless with missiles.

 

Grabacr has their share of deploying a ton of chaffs and flares. Especially during the final battle where you can see the nice flashing light that is a flare quite often. For handling I was thinking more of between fighters.


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#39
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Hmmm I haven't noticed the flares as much in AC5, nor have I ever used them. I'll pay closer attention when I play it again.

 

The handling even between fighters I find hard to distinguish. The Raptor for sure handles different from an F-14, but I can't really say as to whether it's realistic. It's different enough that I don't notice it ever being an issue and the single role system is good enough, although your god damn wingmen always question you if this is a good formation or not. That would be logical if they actually did anything. Plus I'm the kind of player who goes by looks and I usually make the whole squadron the same plane and sometimes the lead plane will be different.


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#40
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Hmmm I haven't noticed the flares as much in AC5, nor have I ever used them. I'll pay closer attention when I play it again.

 

You can't actually use the flares, but the aces can. It's pretty visible in the final mission.


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